Tasers with Video Cameras in Honolulu - [Newsvine Poll]

News Type: Event — Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:14 AM EST

Digits

Live Poll

Ban Tasers from Police?

Yes
31%
Yes - Except for specialized enforcement.
22%
No - But we need more regulation/training.
41%
No
6%

Total Votes: 32

Live Poll

Are tasers a form of torture? [U.N's opinion.]

Yes, even if the use can be "justified."
63%
Yes. But this torture is sometimes necessary.
11%
No. But I still do not agree with taser-use.
11%
No. I do not ever believe it is torture.
15%

Total Votes: 27

Tasers with video cameras should be a given. But should we stop there?

The police tasers in Honolulu, according to the Honolulu Advertiser, will begin getting equipped with video cameras in response to increasing controversy over how tasers are being used.

The Honolulu police department will equip all 500 of their tasers with a night vision capable video camera in order to show the community how tasers are used. This additional feature of an added camera will hopefully, also, offer protection to officers who may otherwise find themselves in controversial situations after having deployed their taser. The cameras on the tasers can tape up to 90 minutes and will adjust to lighting conditions automatically.

HPD Chief Boisse Correa said that although they have had zero complaints regarding their police departments use of tasers, he stated, "But if we were to end up in court in civil litigation over the use of a Taser, the cameras will help justify appropriate action was taken. ... One litigation and it pays for itself. If you save one life, the taser will pay for itself one or two times over."

Of course, some studies suggest that taser use has not only not impacted lowered shootings, but also that taser use, which the United Nations believes is a form of torture, is on the rise simply because the police have the tasers and implicit permission to use them for compliance.

Honolulu is moving in the right direction with wanting to keep litigation and malfeasance at bay, but it still remains a question as to whether the general population is aware that tasers are not as safe as propagandized.

Police officials said the move is to show the community how the nonlethal weapons are used, but also to offer some protection to officers and the police department against lawsuits.

With even the verbiage of the Honolulu Advertisers article, it is clear that a majority of the people accept that a taser is a non-lethal weapon, despite numerous claims from medical experts and studies [ not conducted by people associated with taser makers ] to the contrary.

This petition, Outlaw Law Enforcement Taser Use, calls for an outright ban of tasers from the police arsenal of choices.

Citing several instances in which tasers were unnecessarily or illegally deployed, the petition coupled with the TaserWatch collaboration of numerous and tragic stories of taser deployment sometimes leading to death, it seems one cannot help but to think that a camera on every taser is not a lot to ask in the face of torture or potential death.

21 Votes
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Groups: Open Minded, Question Authority, RightsVine, TaserWatch, The Open Closet, Writers Without Boundaries
Regions: Honolulu

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4.4

1.3

{"commentId":1517755,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

Yes this article is link heavy but I thought it would be a good idea to include them for the people who are not aware of all the taser controversy surrounding taser use, taser bias from the manufacturers citing "independent research" and the allegations of safety vs actual studies and medical opinions. . Don't forget the polls! I look forward to the answers. :)

{"commentId":1517755,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

2 votes

#1 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:24 AM EST

{"commentId":1518074,"authorDomain":"SHSDavid"}

Dav5049915

they definately should not ban tasers.

but they should give the officers more training for when they do need to use them.

{"commentId":1518074,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"SHSDavid"}

1 vote

#2 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:34 PM EST

{"commentId":1524157,"authorDomain":"batmanchester"}

batmanchesterDeleted

{"commentId":1524621,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

Thanks for responding Dave. I appreciate your answering the poll and your comments.
You too BatManChester...LoL

{"commentId":1524621,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

1 vote

#2.2 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:26 PM EST

{"commentId":1518163,"authorDomain":"Spaman"}

Spaman

They should ban tasers until it can be proven they can be used responsibly - and they should have to justify every single use

{"commentId":1518163,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"Spaman"}

3 votes

#3 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:56 PM EST

{"commentId":1518316,"authorDomain":"evilgenius"}

evilgenius

Spaman, you have a reasonable answer here. Banning tasers outright just isn't the answer. Law Enforcement must have tools to work with, BUT they must understand and use those tools in accordance with rules of engagement. Also, ordinary citizens must continue to press and hold the various LEs accountable when they cross the line.

{"commentId":1518316,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"evilgenius"}

2 votes

#3.1 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:33 PM EST

{"commentId":1521792,"authorDomain":"Spaman"}

Spaman

Also, ordinary citizens must continue to press and hold the various LEs accountable when they cross the line.

That's the message that needs to go - understand what is being used... and users are accountable for their actions

{"commentId":1521792,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"Spaman"}

1 vote

#3.2 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:45 AM EST

{"commentId":1518291,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

they should have to justify every single use

Yes, they should have to report their use, just as they do with guns. Maybe they do already? They have the stats on that. I think it's just too tempting for psychopaths, including those with just "a streak", to be able to zap people with impunity. We have to make improper use punishable, the same as with guns.

I think the cameras on tasers is a great idea.

{"commentId":1518291,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

3 votes

#4 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:26 PM EST

{"commentId":1520283,"authorDomain":"mrhomer4"}

Mark Homer

gladbutterfly you are right,They need to be accountable just as we are also.I think the camera would give insight on the misuse and outright abuse,The camera should be 1 on the officer and 1 on the person that it's being used on.It would cause a dramatic drop in abuses.Mark :>)

{"commentId":1520283,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"mrhomer4"}

2 votes

#4.1 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:58 PM EST

{"commentId":1518382,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}

Dr Know

Many cops have been subjected to a tasering. They get the idea that they are safe because of this. They are not aware of the big difference they have over a suspect being tasered. The cop is not in a highly emotional state. The cop has had time to prepare themselves mentally for the experience. In most cases, the cop is younger and in almost prime shape (despite the donut jokes) as opposed to the people that they use the taser on. Medications, legal and illegal, can drastically alter the ability to safely withstand the electric shock.

If you watch the taser videos we do get to see, many times the cop gives a command that is opposite of what he really wants. A very common one is for the suspect to "get on your back" when they want them on their stomach. The suspect is usually on the stomach with the hands behind the back when the cop tases them for not getting on their back. The cop later lies about the lack of compliance on the part of the suspect. When they review the tape, the cop is kidded about that and the other cops laugh about the suspect being tased.

Records show that there is at least one death each week from the use of a taser. This result has steadily increased as more tasers get in the hands of the police.

The police do not routinely review the deployment of a taser. They carefully do NOT keep records on such deployments either.

{"commentId":1518382,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}

3 votes

#5 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:48 PM EST

{"commentId":1524249,"authorDomain":"batmanchester"}

batmanchesterDeleted

{"commentId":1524342,"authorDomain":"ejronin"}

Shawn Gordon

I think every cop should be tasered at least once a week, just to keep THEM in line...........

wonderful logic. we'll just deter cops from being cops. Don't @!$%# when you get held up and dont get all up in arms when no one stops a criminal.

{"commentId":1524342,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"ejronin"}

#5.2 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:31 PM EST

{"commentId":1518429,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

FDBryant3

The cameras are a good thing. The appropriate and proper use of a taser is not torture. Better training and monitoring of use is needed.

{"commentId":1518429,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

3 votes

#6 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:01 PM EST

{"commentId":1519555,"authorDomain":"Infohack"}

Infohack

This is a positive step in assuring that there is accountability and a reviewable record with regard to Taser use, I applaud the Honolulu police department on being progressive on the issue.

I think with greater public awareness, we're starting to see a slow shift in attitudes regarding Taser use.

{"commentId":1519555,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"Infohack"}

3 votes

#7 - Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:01 PM EST

{"commentId":1521874,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

I chose to ban tasers and I chose that it is a form a torture [period].

The police, as a whole, have proven to me that, as a unit, they cannot differentiate between justified taserings and anger/punitive/fearful taserings. Too many stories and news accounts have not slipped past my radar for me to overlook this and to think that [with proper training and oversight] the police would improve their tasering numbers.

What I am consistently witnessing are police officers who are human. They are not superhuman people so that when they put on a badge they are all of a sudden "citizens for righteousness." No. They put that badge on in the morning and equip themselves with a gun and a taser being the same person, having the same prejusices, fears and anger mismanagement problems so many others have. [And probably not helped that they see people every day acting as their worst possible selves.]

Coupled with the fabrication of a tasers safety and the soundbite that "tasers save lives" when [it may be true but] there was a study that said "No. No they don't." and it falls in line with my own common sense that tasers are not being used instead of guns but as weapons of convenience and weapons of compliance.

I just can't agree with that.

With my living in a country that was founded upon personal liberty and certain expressed guaranteed rights, I can no longer agree with police arming themselves with tasers.

{"commentId":1521874,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

1 vote

#8 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:40 AM EST

{"commentId":1522077,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

FDBryant3

The police, as a whole, have proven to me that, as a unit, they cannot differentiate between justified taserings and anger/punitive/fearful taserings. Too many stories and news accounts have not slipped past my radar for me to overlook this and to think that [with proper training and oversight] the police would improve their tasering numbers.

The problem is that we have no context for when tasers are being used properly versus when they are not. Lets say I told you that last week there were 1,000 stories of taser abuse. You'd naturally think that is horrible. Then lets say I told you there were 1,000 stories of taser abuse but that is out of 100,000 total uses and the remaining 99,000 instances they were used properly and in doing so they saved lives and injury. Do you really want to take that away for a 1% of bad actors?

The problem is the media doesn't report when it is used properly only when it appears to have been abused. Appears is an important word by the way. They rarely report both sides of the story, only that which is visible. They rarely follow up on the stories they do report. Or if they do with much less fanfare than the initial story. When is the last time you heard the story of why the officer tased someone? When is the last time when you heard the story of an officer using a taser to stop a crime? Or used a taser when they might of used a gun? Do you really believe it doesn't happen? The reason you don't see these stories is because it isn't news. That is one of the problems with the news media - the headline "99.9% of people did their jobs correctly today" doesn't sell.

Anyway, the taser is a weapon like any other. It has the potential to be abused and it has the potential to save lives and reduce injuries. Personally I'd rather be tased than shot with a gun, beaten with a billy club, or sprayed with pepper spray. We should not take away a something that can reduce death and injury. We should insist upon better training, better monitoring, and appropriate correction in the cases of misuse and abuse.

{"commentId":1522077,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

2 votes

#8.1 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:45 AM EST

{"commentId":1524655,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

FDBryant - I appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

You're absolutely correct about the media. We hear the atrocious stories.

Recently I seeded a link in which the large woman was tasered 8 times - and that I would have considered justifiable - and did that on purpose to gauge the public response to it. This happened to not be a case of complete insane use of taser and frankly, I was happy to see it being reported. I can tell from the comments on that article that we all have different ideas to handle it but agree that there is something that needs to be done with respect to accountability and training.

You are also right that it is a weapon like any other. This is another of my points of contention with Taser International's propagandized marketing strategy as "safe" and "non-lethal" and "saves lives" when independent studies have overturned those claims.

There is a day I would have been where you are with it...all nice and moderate and making sense. But, alas, that day for me is gone. I have become too submerged, FD, and this is where I sit today. One day I hope to be back to normal.

Thanks again.

{"commentId":1524655,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

1 vote

#8.2 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:32 PM EST

{"commentId":1822032,"authorDomain":"jwbuchan"}

jamiewb

Lets say I told you that last week there were 1,000 stories of taser abuse. You'd naturally think that is horrible. Then lets say I told you there were 1,000 stories of taser abuse but that is out of 100,000 total uses and the remaining 99,000 instances they were used properly and in doing so they saved lives and injury. Do you really want to take that away for a 1% of bad actors?

Well, I guess that we'd have to agree on a definition of proper taser use, but no matter what the definition is, if the police were incorrectly tasering 1,000 people daily, then I would absolutely say that they should be taken away.

{"commentId":1822032,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"jwbuchan"}

1 vote

#8.3 - Tue May 20, 2008 12:37 PM EDT

{"commentId":1822076,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

FDBryant3

then I would absolutely say that they should be taken away.

I'd say the better solution would be take out (as in re-train, or fire) those who are misusing them.

{"commentId":1822076,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}

1 vote

#8.4 - Tue May 20, 2008 12:48 PM EDT

{"commentId":1524230,"authorDomain":"ejronin"}

Shawn Gordon

What I find interesting is that according to the poll you have here, people view tasers as torture, but still think they're needed. 48% said no ban, 67% it is torture (thus far)...

{"commentId":1524230,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"ejronin"}

#9 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:11 PM EST

{"commentId":1537921,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

"So yes I believe it's torture. But don't ban them! I prefer you regulate the torture."

{"commentId":1537921,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

2 votes

#9.1 - Tue Mar 4, 2008 6:24 AM EST

{"commentId":1524996,"authorDomain":"Blueflameleo"}

Blueflameleo

Tasers need to go this is a form of torture.

{"commentId":1524996,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"Blueflameleo"}

1 vote

#10 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:50 PM EST

{"commentId":1525243,"authorDomain":"digits"}

Digits

Thanks for playing. :)

{"commentId":1525243,"threadId":"226537","contentId":"1331675","authorDomain":"digits"}

1 vote

#10.1 - Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:08 PM EST

{"canLink":false,"threadId":"226537","isPrivate":false}

DIGITS

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